Cost of 3d work?

[colicoid]

I know this is a complex question but how much does 3d artists generally charge for their work.

I've been asked to model a bus. It's only going to be seen from the outside but in all angles. It needs to be fairly high res, textured and there's some animation involved. It might need to be put into some kind of environment - not sure yet...

Where's the ballpark?

[danlefeb]

Tough call, because in the end its really up to you. How much is your time worth to you? If you think it'll take you one day (eight hours) to complete, how much would you be willing to sacrifice eight hours for? Assuming it'll take you away from other work.

A lot of clients want to pay what you may consider a day's salary for a job that may take you a week or two weeks to complete. At that point its up to you to determine if you can invest the extra time into the project or not.

I know that doesn't really help you come up with a solid number, but there are so many variables involved in any project that what it comes down to is always the same...... what do you consider your time to be worth? What does the client consider your time to be worth? Come up with a happy medium. Good luck!

[colicoid]

I noticed that MPC in london charge 2000 pounds per day for Maya work.
However these guys are top notch and I'm pretty much a beginner.

I was thinking of charging them about 1000 usd for the whole thing.
Im not a very experienced modeller so It'll prob take me two days (or more if I run into some stupid problem).

I think it's decent for them because they get a reusable 3d asset and a high quality render. With Maya I can also render to flash which is useful.

[ckpepper02]

I noticed that MPC in london charge 2000 pounds per day for Maya work.
However these guys are top notch and I'm pretty much a beginner.

I was thinking of charging them about 1000 usd for the whole thing.
Im not a very experienced modeller so It'll prob take me two days (or more if I run into some stupid problem).

I think it's decent for them because they get a reusable 3d asset and a high quality render. With Maya I can also render to flash which is useful.

Just bear in mind that the conversion of British pounds to USD is $1.95. So if your thinking you're just charging half of what the big wigs charge, your not. 2000 british pounds works out to $3900 USD.

Just something else to consider :dont_know

[laxman]

1000 sounds about right for a photorealistic model of a bus. I don't know from personal experience, but I come across similar questions from time to time. If you do the animation, which includes lighting/camera setup as well as the rendering that figure should probably be closer to about $100/sec, on the other hand if you do all of it will take longer than 8 hours.

Bottom line: $1000 for only the model + textures ->about 8 hrs work
$80 - 100/sec for a complete photorealistic animation. ->about a 3 - 4 days including render time.

[colicoid]

Thanx alot, this really helps out alot.

One last question is about ownership of the finished 3d model.
Can I use the model I made for them in a different job later on?
Is that just different from deal to deal?

ckpepper:
Yes, I was aware of the distinction between pounds and usd.
I just need to be alot cheaper. :)

[laxman]

You will have to set that up with the employer. In general i'd say not, you can't have the same model used for two different jobs. Imagine if your client see the same model in another ad somewhere. I'd say when you negotiate your deal tell them that you would like to put the model/PART of the animation on the internet in a demo reel and in forums for feedback.

Also i'm pretty sure that you don't hand over the actual scene file, but you are going to have to double check that with someone else.

[Jak_Carver]

Thanx alot, this really helps out alot.

One last question is about ownership of the finished 3d model.
Can I use the model I made for them in a different job later on?
Is that just different from deal to deal?

ckpepper:
Yes, I was aware of the distinction between pounds and usd.
I just need to be alot cheaper. :)


you should do everything you can to retain rights to your model. Dont give anything away. Remember that the client almost always pays for an animation (the finished product will almost always be a video or render) so make sure you hold on to the scene file. What your client should be paying for, is almost like a license to use the animation/render to promote their product or service. If your doing free lance work for say a game studio thats different; you will need to turn in a scene and model file. It all depends on the client, but one thing to make sure is that you make it clear in words and in writing, your work can only be used for what you give them permission for. For example, if its for a magazine (i.e. a photorealistic render of their vacuum cleaner or something) your work can only be used for that specific ad, in that specific magazine, for that specific month's issue of Martha Stuart Living or whatever; just an example. This way they cant screw you later. I have a friend who did a short animation of a bank's logo and he neglected to cover this angle; the bank said they would be using him for other jobs. Next thing you know they never called him again and they continue to use his animation on promo videos in the bank to this day, years after he did it. Thats alot of money he got screwed out of, so be careful and dont make that mistake. Unfortunately theres too many angles to cover but try to cover the big things like rights of ownership, royalties (VERY IMPORTANT!!), usage limits, etc. Another important factor that comes into the final cost is the medium it will be used for. I.e. will it be in a local newspaper, national magazine, national television, hotel video, commercial, personal, educational, how many people will be exposed to it-hundreds, thousands, millions, more? This is a key factor that can make the difference in your pay huge. The last thing you want is for a friend to call you and tell you to go to some cable channel and bam theres your animation or render being used and abused lol. Actually thats not funny. Sounds like im over complicating things I know, but trust me it is a horrible feeling when you know youve been screwed out of whats owed to you. Learn from mistakes of others so you dont have to make your own. Thats my two cents.

[danlefeb]

Covering yourself is very important, as Jak has mentioned. Where it gets sticky is that if you try to cover all your angles and plop down a big contract with a bunch of paperwork that they have to sign, a lot of clients may think it isn't worth it and go find someone else who isn't doesn't require so much paperwork.

What I'm saying is to follow Jak's advice - be very careful to cover all the bases you can, but do so in a way that doesn't make it seem to your client like you're being a jerk and trying to screw them out of using the product that they're paying for. If all they see are restrictions, the natural inclination for them would be to think that you're trying to screw them. So be careful of that too...Always retain a very good relationship (if possible). That way they won't be as inclined to think you're pulling one over on them.

One last suggestion....keep the client updated at all times. Once the project has begun, don't just leave and come back two weeks later with a final render. Show them screenshots of your modeling process, ask them if they want anything changed, etc. If you're charging by hour, then great - you can charge more hours...if you're not (although I'd suggest you do), it will help build a better experience because that way at the end when they see the final render its exactly what they want and you won't have to go back and change anything on your own time. Trust me, if you wait to the final render to show the client something and they don't like something about it....they're not going to pay you for the hours to fix it.

[Dj Niine]

Look for this book:


Legal Guide for the Visual Artist

the authors name is Tad Crawford

this should not only answer your questions about copyrights but using and making contracts too..with example sheets and real world senarios....Good Luck.....

[McGergs]

Remember, it is not only your time you should be charging for. It is the wear ad tear on your computer and facilities you use. If you are doing freelance, you must look at the whole package of finances.

[Nojoy]

I usually charge per job not hours and give up the video or single frames whatever will be sent over air/web and is needed. Other companys I hire for work usually make a total package price on what is needed. Hourly wise in most cases they would exceed the budget. I tend to work alot of hours on my scenes. For instance that Bus of yours would take me 3 Days at least to be happy with texturing and modeling. For that I would make a base price in your case lets say 2000 bucks at least. 8 hours would not be enough for a amature like me. When it comes to the animation etc I would renegotiate on a total price for the complete thing. To me it seems as if this company youre dealing with really knows exactly what they need. As Jak mentioned in most cases it tends to be a video. They should know what they finally want and need to make sure the production works smoothly time factor wise. It would be a waste to animate stuff that isnt used and on top of it who is going to pay for your efforts there. Bottom Line make sure you know what they want exactly to be able to know what to charge, and dont be to cheap about it even from an amature standpoint, always keep in mind someone else could do the job and would maybe charge more because of thier skills. You cant be underpayd to much since this would ruin the market. Keep that in mind. For the Jobs I do I also take half the cash in advance or I will not work on the project at all. In most cases people hire you but are unwilling to pay. With this advance payment I make sure of their credibility and seriousness when it comes to the project itself. Hope this helps a bit and it is only may way of dealing with payment wich Im sure isnt the perfect nor the best way. Good luck to you and let us see some work in progress if you can. ;)

[colicoid]

Thanks again for all comments.
The deal turned out pretty different from the initial talks.
They didnt know exactly what they wanted so we made some suggestions.
We offered them a complete package with the bus in 3D. Animation web quality, full HD quality etc... Thats stage 1. Stage 2 is actual footage with a HD camera. All of this put together in a package for 8500USD. But here is the trick. Evereytime they sell a bus, they are going to offer the buyer of the bus a press package. I will go in and slap a new logo on the buss and rerender. We're not sure what we'll charge for that but about 3500usd. They hope to sell about 120 busses during 2007. Most certainly, only a few buyers will also invest in the press package. Some potential there though... :)